Turbo 36 not performing

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Turbo 36 not performing

Postby TurboRoss » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:59 pm

Hello

I recently posted that i had bought a 1990 turbo from Guernsey and was sailing her to jersey .

Well I've done that journey now and managed to get 11 knots out of the boat nearly at full RPM. So we reduced the power on the engines, cruised at 8-9 knots. Not very good at all.

The boat has sat in the marina for 3 years and has not been lifted or used in that time , so you can imagine the weed growth , also one of the motors (306) ran hotter than the other for the 3 hour crossing? .

Upon arrival into jersey the back of the boat was plastered in black soot ....

Ive had a quick look at the turbos , and the fans are turning albeit around the fans its oily !

Theres something restricting the performance of this boat and I'm not sure its all about the turbos

Has anyone had any experience with these motors and if so any advice would be appreciated

thank you , best

ross
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Re: Turbo 36 not performing

Postby Bolero » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:52 pm

Hi,
If the turbos are freely turning, change the air filters and if you can power wash the hull, do that as well.
Has the be the first look.
Any temp over 88 degrees in the engine should be looked at.
Check / change raw water pump impeller and possibly clean out the cooling system.
Regards.
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Re: Turbo 36 not performing

Postby Gyula Huszar » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:14 pm

Hello TurboRoss,

We could speculate about the root cause(s) of your engines' poor performance, but if my intuition is working properly and if I'm understanding what you've said, you've just survived a crossing in an unknown boat that hasn't been looked at by a technician for at least 3 years. That's cause for celebration.

As far as the poor performance goes, every aspect of the boat contributes or detracts from its overall performance.

Soot is a result of too much fuel being injected with too little air. Turbos have a big part in the air/fuel ratio matrix, but so does internal manifold cleanliness, the pressure hose to the boost sensor, valve integrity etc. Some turbo housings get eaten by salt air and their clearances become so large that boost is diminished. The result is overfueling and low power output. Since you managed peak rpm, I'd be looking particularly at the props and the hull.

I took my 32 sedan bridge out yesterday, in the rain, just to run it up to 25 knots and clear the junk off the bottom and the outdrives. I do this at least every two weeks, rain or shine, yeararound. I watch for any indication that anything's wrong, like engine temperatures or alternator output fluctuations. I'm not pushing it; I've got two engines with 640 total horsepower; but I do want to get up to fast cruise speed. I also visit the boat which gives me the opportunity to see if anything is amiss, if it's listing, if the boathouse is sinking, those kinds of things. Early warning symptoms help negate massive headaches, if you're there to see it and to do something about it.

I run through a checklist beforehand and during the biweekly sea trials. I want to know if the radio is transmitting and receiving; if the bilge pumps all work; if the wipers function properly; if the windlass works; etc,; all of which may sound excessive, but if you should need any of the items I've described or those I've not mentioned, and you don't have it/them operating properly, you could end up in a situation that deteriorates so quickly that you might not be able to do anything about it. And that is unacceptable.

You might wonder why I included 'windlass' in the check. You might not be thinking of anchoring, so why worry about it? Well, I had a friend lose his engine recently on a 32' Grenfell, which left him dead in the water, and if he wasn't fortunate enough to have bumped into a mooring buoy (buy a lottery ticket!) he would have ended up at the mercy of the tidal currents a couple of hundred yards from the 2nd Narrows. The current can run over 5 knots on ebb, and the bridge above the narrows has huge piers dividing the narrows into narrowers. Hitting those at 5 knots or getting stuck in the swirl around them would have been a harrowing experience even worse than the one he had. Interestingly, his frantic waving when dead in the water attracted the attention of precisely no one.

So there you have it. Ignore nothing. Consider what could happen. Stay safe. And enjoy your new boat!
Last edited by Gyula Huszar on Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Turbo 36 not performing

Postby Gyula Huszar » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:02 pm

I ran across this video;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwJrZpwJ5RE
which documents this fellow's attempt to cross the Salish Sea (also known as the Georgia Strait).

I am looking for 'training videos', videos posted by boaters who've had experiences that might cause me to adjust my preparations. This fellow looks like he's determined to cross the strait with nothing more than gumption and faith. Luckily he changed his mind and decided to return to port once the pucker factor became overriding. How many things can you see that you would have done differently?
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Re: Turbo 36 not performing

Postby Bolero » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:45 pm

What was the max revs you were getting?
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Re: Turbo 36 not performing

Postby TurboRoss » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:43 pm

Hi there and thanks for you’re reply , I was very interested in reading your post thank you .

I might have come across a bit of a vigilante boat owner .. I didn’t mention that I had two friends with me , a marine electrician and another friend who has over 30 years boating experience. We checked the engines over found all the vital signs ok before we left . We did wing it a bit but the circumstances were against us and I had to get the Boat home ASAP !

I want to get this boat right and the checks you do and regular run ups fortnightly are firmly on my list . I’ll check everything on a regular basis and again I thank you for that advice .

I’ve booked the crane to lift this boat out in 3 weeks I’m looking forward to seeing what the bottom looks like , I’ve copied what you’ve said about the engines and will pass that info onto the engineer who’s going to service it .
Can i spray turbo cleaner into the turbos whilst running to see if it helps or is that not a good idea ?

I’ll check that video out and will check what the RPM were with the two friends . We plan to give it another run this week , but I’m not holding out much hope to be honest .

The boat also has a list to starboard , only slightly but noticeable.
Will keep in touch
All the best . Ross
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Re: Turbo 36 not performing

Postby Gyula Huszar » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:31 am

Hi again, TurboRoss,

Spray turbo cleaner isn't meant to be sprayed in while the engine is running. It's to be used when the turbo is on the bench so it can be blown clean after the foam has done its job.

Diesel engines have such small combustion chambers that it can't take any extra volume and compress the air and fuel and the extra volume of the foam. I've never tried, but it is considered to be an absolute no-no to spray it in while running. Besides, the cleaning effect of the foam takes a bit of time in contact to work. It says all this on the can.

If you read the 'projects' forum I've chronicled the year past as it pertains to my experiences with my new 30 year old boat. It was owned by a doctor with ample funds to maintain and improve it, and still it needed a thorough inspection and a bunch of work before I set out for distant ports. Money does not necessarily equate to reliability or optimal safety.

I'm a bit of a vigilante boat owner too, but a smaller bit than you are. I'm a mechanic so my faith in machinery and all things in the physical realm is tempered by having intrinsic knowledge of the same and the experience of dealing with all of the above when it goes wrong. I don't mean to scare you off boating or anything like that, so I exhort you to do the following;
Have the vessel surveyed by a surveyor with a good reputation;
Act on the recommendations immediately;
Have a certified marine technician check out the mechanicals;
Have your marine electrician friend go over the wiring inch by inch, including removing access plates and inspecting behind them (I found wiring that might have set my boat alight behind the main panel) since you may want to use a space heater to help keep the inside of your boat mould free.
Make sure the anchor windlass is working properly; it's your last defense against drifting should your engines cut out.
I pulled off my drives and disassembled them and found a twisted, near failed coupling and a driveshaft bellows that allowed water incursion, a damaged o ring that allowed water to enter the lubricant, lots of mussels and barnacles in the water passages, etc. I corrected all of that and my trips since have been (thankfully) mechanically trouble-free if you don't count hitting logs or breaking props as mechanical failures.
I did this myself because, as the saying goes, 'if you want something done right....' etc. Besides, I now have experience doing this and all the tools onboard that I might need if I should really damage an outdrive. I'd rather know what's going on in there anyway, see it with my own two eyes. It's kinda like having x-ray vision once you've really gone through it.
Gyula Huszar
 
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Re: Turbo 36 not performing

Postby TurboRoss » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:30 pm

Hello again , thank you I’ll leave the turbo cleaner well alone !!

All points taken onboard I’ve got the electricals being thoroughly
examined as we speak , actually we took the boat out today to test the turbos out and we managed 16 knots this time so it’s getting better .

Still has a list to starboard though . !

The countdown has begun for the lift out so time will tell what might be contributing to a lack of speed .

Thanks again for your reply

Ross
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Re: Turbo 36 not performing

Postby TurboRoss » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:47 pm

Hello again

Would you happen to know where the fuel sender unit is located on the turbo 36?

We can’t seem to locate that

Thanks
Ross
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Re: Turbo 36 not performing

Postby Murv » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:16 am

Personally, I would get the hull and stern gear cleaned before you do anything at all. It doesn't take much fouling, especially on the props to rob your performance and if you don't have enough thrust to get on the plane, then hull speed is all you'll get.
I'm assuming you have the TAMD61A's as well.
That's what I would do, anyway, I certainly wouldn't expect to be able to plane mine if it hadn't been out for 3 Years.

Good luck!
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Re: Turbo 36 not performing

Postby Murv » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:18 am

And I assume you'll be getting full engine services done, don't forget the impellers if not already changed!
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Re: Turbo 36 not performing

Postby TurboRoss » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:27 pm

Yep thats exactly what i plan to do...

A good powerwash and de-scale of the barnacles and ill see whats left of my props after that ! :D doubtful that i will see any anodes still in place after 3 years

would anyone know where the full sender units are located? :?: :?

Cheers Ross
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Turbo 36 not performing

Postby Gyula Huszar » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:19 pm

I had a bit of a time finding mine on my sedan bridge; maybe yours is in the same place? Mine is beside the helm seat in the salon. Carpeting up; plywood floor up; all of it's glued in.
Attachments
tank2.jpg
tank.jpg
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Re: Turbo 36 not performing

Postby Murv » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:49 pm

TurboRoss wrote:Yep thats exactly what i plan to do...

A good powerwash and de-scale of the barnacles and ill see whats left of my props after that ! :D doubtful that i will see any anodes still in place after 3 years

would anyone know where the full sender units are located? :?: :?

Cheers Ross
:lol: :lol: :lol:


Furniture out of the saloon, carpets up, floor up and you'll see them. Bit fiddly on the port side as you have to dissemble part of the wooden side as the floor panels are under it,but it's all easy to get at, just a bit annoying having to do it. I'm sure the starboard side tank was far more straightforward to do, but it may just be the way the floor was fitted. I know the first owner paid extra to have the "easy engine access" options. I think that's just the stern gland access hatches, but possibly is more floor sections?
On mine, the floor is split into several panels, so you could just lift the one covering the sender, but I can't remember exactly where that is. From memory, I think it's half way along the length of the tank.
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Re: Turbo 36 not performing

Postby Murv » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:53 pm

As luck would have it, I do have a picture showing the stbd one, anyway.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3suuVnAKo-QSllfOG1hdWdzSU0/view?usp=sharing
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